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 Avant-Garde Metal

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Goat
PerYngveOhlin
Death's Hand
Pistol
temo
Knightfall
Phil
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Master Cthulhu
Fully Converted
Master Cthulhu


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySat Feb 06, 2010 9:39 pm

PerYngveOhlin wrote:
I value the hatred involved and the bravery of the men who fought the plague rats.

Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 Not_this_shit_again
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Phil
Grammar Nazi
Phil


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 12:59 am

Conversation sum-up:

*Pery says some cock-sucking wankery about Hitler that is pure fluff and which he offers no logical explanation for other than becoming more belligerently adamant in his stance*

*People poke fun at his attempts*

*Pery responds even more belligerently*

*People foolhardily try to use logic in an argument that deserves none*
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Death's Hand
Zombie
Death's Hand


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 6:57 am

I think this would be even more concise:

Pery: "eye hayt Joos"

Me: "your ignorance astounds me"

Pery: "eye hart hayt"

Me: "your hate is a crutch"

Knutfail: " eye haz no feelins"

*collective face/palm*

And Goat, if you'd like to point out to me what ethnicity, religion, or nationality is superior, and explain why, I'd love to hear it.

Very Happy
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Goat
Teh Lezboah
Goat


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 8:21 am

Genetic makeups are not equal. Look at the Chinese. They invented practically everything from printing presses to paper money to alcoholic beverage to the fucking fork. Chinese were using blast furnaces thousands of years before the Greeks and Celts. Now compare Chinese progress to some set like the Malays. Not even close in the aspect of technological and mathematical proficiency. Look at the stereotype for Asians and Chinese in particular. Stereotypes aren't baseless. I have no formal proof to say so but I conjecture that there's something about Chinese genes.

Or, just look at physical appearances. Some ethnicities are inherently tiny (e.g. most Asian ethnic groups) while others are large (e.g. Germanic and Slavic peoples). That's one type of superiority right there.
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Master Cthulhu
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Master Cthulhu


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 9:08 am

That still doesn't mean we should use genetic construction as a base for hate.
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Goat
Teh Lezboah
Goat


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 9:16 am

No, of course not!
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Master Cthulhu
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Master Cthulhu


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 9:36 am

Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 Th_NotSureIfSerious
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Goat
Teh Lezboah
Goat


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 9:41 am

100%
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Death's Hand
Zombie
Death's Hand


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 10:35 am

Goat wrote:
Genetic makeups are not equal. Look at the Chinese. They invented practically everything from printing presses to paper money to alcoholic beverage to the fucking fork. Chinese were using blast furnaces thousands of years before the Greeks and Celts. Now compare Chinese progress to some set like the Malays. Not even close in the aspect of technological and mathematical proficiency. Look at the stereotype for Asians and Chinese in particular. Stereotypes aren't baseless. I have no formal proof to say so but I conjecture that there's something about Chinese genes.

Or, just look at physical appearances. Some ethnicities are inherently tiny (e.g. most Asian ethnic groups) while others are large (e.g. Germanic and Slavic peoples). That's one type of superiority right there.

Actually, Guttenburg invented the printing press, the Chinese invented paper(and woodblock printing), and they were producing alcoholic beverages in the Middle East at approximately the same time the Chinese had begun to do so. As for blast furnaces, the technology was basically imported from the West(see Donald Wagner's work). Iron was perfected in Mesopotamia, the first hospital was established in Ceylon, the Spartans invented central heating, the Romans invented concrete, and I could go on, but it's rather pointless. Aptitudes for learning are different from individual to individual, not race to race, or nationality to nationality. China wasn't even China at the points in time we're referring to, and the Chinese are comprised of so many different peoples and kingdoms(states) it's ridiculous. As for mathematics, Pythagoras was Greek if I'm not mistaken...my point being, every culture has it's strengths and weaknesses, again, there IS no dominant or superior race, cultures are also dependent upon access to goods and resources, so of course some backwater people like the Aborigines in Australia aren't going to be technologically advanced as the cultures who have direct contact with one another and can share learned technologies and the like. As for physical appearances, height can be disadvantageous in certain situations too, but like I said earlier, every race and nationality has it's strengths and weaknesses.
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PerYngveOhlin
Aryan Dronefag
PerYngveOhlin


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 11:27 am

The superior race is clearly the nordic/germanic people. They are physically larger than most other races and kicked the ass of the rest of the world for centuries. Between the vikings and the nazi regime the greatest military forces in the world both belonged to the superior race. As for the chinks, I personally have thrown one out a window, so fuck paper money making them superior.
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Goat
Teh Lezboah
Goat


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 11:34 am

Alright China invented paper and printing. The Chinese if I'm not mistaken had the first strong/high ac drinks.

I'm not quite sure what your goal is with random technological citations from across the globe. I didn't say that China invented everything. Certainly many races and regions had their golden ages and technological leaps. That doesn't mean that all races have turned out equal. Look at the people of Africa, they've had their share of innovations, but the continent still home to some of the most lawless, tribal, and underdeveloped nations in the modern world. I'm just saying that there are some exceptional places like China that were ahead of the curve throughout most of history.

"China wasn't even China at the points in time we're referring to, and the Chinese are comprised of so many different peoples and kingdoms(states) it's ridiculous."
The region shared genetics and a mindset. It doesn't matter if it wasn't a single country or if there were lots of kingdoms cartographically.

"As for mathematics, Pythagoras was Greek if I'm not mistaken..."
Yea and Sir Isaac Newton was English, Gauss was German, and Zhu Shijie was Chinese. What is your point? The Greek, Arabic peoples and Chinese developed algebra, trigonometry, base-dependent mathematics, and so on at a remarkably early period in history.

"Iron was perfected in Mesopotamia"
As I indicated above, those who dwelt in that area of the world were geniuses and innovators.

"there IS no dominant or superior race"
There isn't a single dominant race, but there are dominant ones, that should be obvious.

"cultures are also dependent upon access to goods and resources, so of course some backwater people like the Aborigines in Australia aren't going to be technologically advanced as the cultures who have direct contact with one another and can share learned technologies and the like"
Yes, location has a lot to do with racial advancement and expansion. The world isn't "fair," geographically.
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Phil
Grammar Nazi
Phil


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 11:58 am

Goat wrote:
"there IS no dominant or superior race"
There isn't a single dominant race, but there are dominant ones, that should be obvious.
Nurture over nature. That's all I have to say. The reasons you're citing so far have nothing to do with genetic make-up, but rather how things played out historically due to a variety of conditions in which these figures lived. I'm not saying there's no basis for genetic differences between races in some small areas and on the whole, but it's ridiculous to proclaim that any of these differences equate as the dominance of one race.
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Goat
Teh Lezboah
Goat


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 12:13 pm

I believe that countries developed in the ways they did not only because of their topographical situation and historical conditions but also because of the mental capabilities of the inhabitants.
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Phil
Grammar Nazi
Phil


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 1:22 pm

I believe in a supreme deity. It doesn't mean there is one.
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Death's Hand
Zombie
Death's Hand


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 1:51 pm

PerYngveOhlin wrote:
The superior race is clearly the nordic/germanic people. They are physically larger than most other races and kicked the ass of the rest of the world for centuries. Between the vikings and the nazi regime the greatest military forces in the world both belonged to the superior race. As for the chinks, I personally have thrown one out a window, so fuck paper money making them superior.

This is funny. Hahaha As much as I love the Vikings, they were NOT ANYWHERE near the greatest military force in the world, they were raiders, their main weapons were surprise, the swiftness of their raids, and their ability to quickly sail away in their drakkar and their knarr. The Nazi's clearly weren't superior, history is a great guide to show as such. While they did have some pretty kickass weapons such as their panzers, no, they weren't the greatest military force in the world either. Genghis Khan had a SUPERIOR military force. Alexander the Great had a SUPERIOR military force. The US had a SUPERIOR military force(still alot of evidence to back that up as well). Rome had a SUPERIOR military force. Qinshi Huangdi had a SUPERIOR military force. William the Conqueror had a SUPERIOR military force. How do we know this? Check the history books, they were never obliterated by anyone, although I can hardly say as such for the Nazi's.
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Death's Hand
Zombie
Death's Hand


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 2:03 pm

Goat wrote:
Alright China invented paper and printing. The Chinese if I'm not mistaken had the first strong/high ac drinks.

I'm not quite sure what your goal is with random technological citations from across the globe. I didn't say that China invented everything. Certainly many races and regions had their golden ages and technological leaps. That doesn't mean that all races have turned out equal. Look at the people of Africa, they've had their share of innovations, but the continent still home to some of the most lawless, tribal, and underdeveloped nations in the modern world. I'm just saying that there are some exceptional places like China that were ahead of the curve throughout most of history.

My goal was to show you that the Chinese are not alone in their achievements, and I could ask you the same of why you gave us examples of all the things they invented, what was the point then? I never said they were equal, I said they all have their own strengths and weaknesses, but in so doing, it kinda does make us all equal on some level or another.


Quote :
The region shared genetics and a mindset. It doesn't matter if it wasn't a single country or if there were lots of kingdoms cartographically.

No, it didn't. As I said, there were TONS of different peoples that China was comprised of, the Nanman, the Wuwan, the Qiang, the Shanyue, the Manchu, etc., tons of tribes and peoples of the Steppe I'm sure, all these cultures intermingled and made, and make up what we know today as the Chinese.

Quote :
Yea and Sir Isaac Newton was English, Gauss was German, and Zhu Shijie was Chinese. What is your point? The Greek, Arabic peoples and Chinese developed algebra, trigonometry, base-dependent mathematics, and so on at a remarkably early period in history.
That was my point. Not just the Chinese who you focused on in your response. They aren't the only nationality of people who've made strides and leaps in the realms of technology and mathematics.
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Master Cthulhu
Fully Converted
Master Cthulhu


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 3:01 pm

Ok, you might be right in that sense, but you missed the point completely.
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Phil
Grammar Nazi
Phil


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 3:25 pm

Master Cthulhu wrote:
Ok, you might be right in that sense, but you missed the point completely.
What, pray tell, was the point?
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Goat
Teh Lezboah
Goat


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 3:34 pm

Death's Hand wrote:
Goat wrote:
Alright China invented paper and printing. The Chinese if I'm not mistaken had the first strong/high ac drinks.

I'm not quite sure what your goal is with random technological citations from across the globe. I didn't say that China invented everything. Certainly many races and regions had their golden ages and technological leaps. That doesn't mean that all races have turned out equal. Look at the people of Africa, they've had their share of innovations, but the continent still home to some of the most lawless, tribal, and underdeveloped nations in the modern world. I'm just saying that there are some exceptional places like China that were ahead of the curve throughout most of history.

My goal was to show you that the Chinese are not alone in their achievements, and I could ask you the same of why you gave us examples of all the things they invented, what was the point then? I never said they were equal, I said they all have their own strengths and weaknesses, but in so doing, it kinda does make us all equal on some level or another.


Quote :
The region shared genetics and a mindset. It doesn't matter if it wasn't a single country or if there were lots of kingdoms cartographically.

No, it didn't. As I said, there were TONS of different peoples that China was comprised of, the Nanman, the Wuwan, the Qiang, the Shanyue, the Manchu, etc., tons of tribes and peoples of the Steppe I'm sure, all these cultures intermingled and made, and make up what we know today as the Chinese.

Quote :
Yea and Sir Isaac Newton was English, Gauss was German, and Zhu Shijie was Chinese. What is your point? The Greek, Arabic peoples and Chinese developed algebra, trigonometry, base-dependent mathematics, and so on at a remarkably early period in history.
That was my point. Not just the Chinese who you focused on in your response. They aren't the only nationality of people who've made strides and leaps in the realms of technology and mathematics.
I'm using the Chinese as an example. I didn't say they were the master race lol. And you don't seem to understand that many of those clumps of people that make up Chinese are very similar. I don't know why, but people from the "civilized" world (e.g. USA, England) don't get the concept that if ethnicity A has a different language from ethnicity B, A wars with B all the time, A and B's religions are different, A and B aren't necessarily very different people. In fact, sometimes they are the same people calling themselves different. I know this because of where I was born and have lived.

So, because Chinese groups have different names and may have warred with each other doesn't mean that they are totally different people. That's not to say that some of them are significantly different of course. Anyways, China has had a central government for over 2,000 years. It's not like they were tribes of barbarians until the English came.

In response to the maths... both the Arabs and Chinese (as well as Hellas) had established laws and properties of math that Western Europe didn't discover until hundreds of years later. These three regions are historically remarkable. Once again I never said that China is "more dominant" than those two.
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PerYngveOhlin
Aryan Dronefag
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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 3:42 pm

This thread is pure TL;DR.
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Death's Hand
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Death's Hand


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 3:57 pm

Quote :
I'm using the Chinese as an example. I didn't say they were the master race lol. And you don't seem to understand that many of those clumps of people that make up Chinese are very similar. I don't know why, but people from the "civilized" world (e.g. USA, England) don't get the concept that if ethnicity A has a different language from ethnicity B, A wars with B all the time, A and B's religions are different, A and B aren't necessarily very different people. In fact, sometimes they are the same people calling themselves different. I know this because of where I was born and have lived.

So, because Chinese groups have different names and may have warred with each other doesn't mean that they are totally different people. That's not to say that some of them are significantly different of course. Anyways, China has had a central government for over 2,000 years. It's not like they were tribes of barbarians until the English came.

In response to the maths... both the Arabs and Chinese (as well as Hellas) had established laws and properties of math that Western Europe didn't discover until hundreds of years later. These three regions are historically remarkable. Once again I never said that China is "more dominant" than those two.

I didn't say you did...you were implying their superiority in terms of innovation and mathematics, I simply stated they weren't the only nationality with such proficiencies. And I don't think it's that hard for me to understand...or any of the rest of us "civilized" people(I wouldn't say Native Americans or Mexicans have the same genetic make-up as we Americans, or the English do Neutral ) for that matter. There were several people or tribes of the Steppes that were possessed of fair complexions, blue eyes, brown and red hair. For that matter Indians are considered Asian, but they clearly are VERY different to the Chinese. The Shanyue, Wuwan, Qiang, Nanman especially were different to the Chinese as well, I knew as much or I wouldn't have stated so in the first place.

Quote :
Anyways, China has had a central government for over 2,000 years. It's not like they were tribes of barbarians until the English came.

...you're just putting words in my mouth now, I never said or implied this in any way.
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Goat
Teh Lezboah
Goat


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptySun Feb 07, 2010 5:23 pm

Quote :
I didn't say you did...you were implying their superiority in terms of innovation and mathematics, I simply stated they weren't the only nationality with such proficiencies.
Yea? That's just what I said. What are we even talking about over here then?

Quote :
And I don't think it's that hard for me to understand...or any of the rest of us "civilized" people(I wouldn't say Native Americans or Mexicans have the same genetic make-up as we Americans, or the English do Neutral ) for that matter.
That's just what I mean. You see it so clear cut as Mexicans and Native Americans, Mexicans and English. The west sees in "macro" only it seems, and not "micro."

Quote :
For that matter Indians are considered Asian, but they clearly are VERY different to the Chinese.
And they're fuckin brilliant too!

Quote :
There were several people or tribes of the Steppes that were possessed of fair complexions, blue eyes, brown and red hair. The Shanyue, Wuwan, Qiang, Nanman especially were different to the Chinese as well, I knew as much or I wouldn't have stated so in the first place.
I don't even know what you're going with this. Yes, it's true that there were different peoples with Chinese-sounding names. No they were not Chinese as you said. The Qiang were frequently massacred by the Han troops. The Nanman is a blanket label for the southern barbarians and were labeled such by the Han. The Shanyue were taken as slaves by the Wu. Many other smaller groups were slaughtered by assimilated into the Hans. I don't think the people you are talking about were ever called Chinese or have had any inventions attributed to them. So to summarize, they're !not Chinese! as you've so clearly stated multiple times. I don't see your conclusion.


Quote :
...you're just putting words in my mouth now, I never said or implied this in any way.
Let me clear that up for you: China has had a central government for thousands of years, controlled by whichever Chinese kingdom was currently in power. These different kingdoms which controlled China and made up most of China were very very similar. It's the un-Chinese people who were the more insignificant groups like the Qiang, Di, and Jei that generally only kept their identity for less than a thousand years before being destroyed/assimilated.
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Knightfall
Madgod
Knightfall


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 08, 2010 6:45 am

Phil wrote:
Conversation sum-up:

*Pery says some cock-sucking wankery about Hitler that is pure fluff and which he offers no logical explanation for other than becoming more belligerently adamant in his stance*

*People poke fun at his attempts*

*Pery responds even more belligerently*

*People foolhardily try to use logic in an argument that deserves none*

^
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Haimerej
Frustrated Novelist
Haimerej


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 08, 2010 10:38 am

PerYngveOhlin wrote:
This thread is pure TL;DR.

This is per's most facepalm-worthy post in the history of this forum.
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Kerberos
Imperial Walnut Slayer
Kerberos


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PostSubject: Re: Avant-Garde Metal   Avant-Garde Metal - Page 6 EmptyMon Feb 08, 2010 11:39 am

Haimerej wrote:
PerYngveOhlin wrote:
This thread is pure TL;DR.

This is per's most facepalm-worthy post in the history of this forum.

Nope I can think of a few others that fit that better.
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