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Knightfall
Madgod
Knightfall

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 01, 2010 9:24 am

Slavia > Kataxu

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Teh Lezboah
Goat

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyFri Oct 01, 2010 10:22 am

http://a657.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/73/l_1f2f6a620addded3fb4c60c705c30fd8.jpg NS with a PLO shirt? I don't think so Very Happy...
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KPN
Little Man
KPN

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 10:46 pm

Absurd Rerelease of their old material in the 'Der fünfzehnjährige Krieg' and Ad Hominem got me into that stuff. I can't stand all these 'Aryan [add random right-wing-sounding word]' bands though... If one can't even come up with a decent name for the band, the music will most likely be uninteresting.

Oh, and if someone could upload the white wolves kommando demos or tell me a european mailorder that still has them, I'd be grateful.
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Knightfall
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Knightfall

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 6:37 pm

Yeah, Absurd is awesome. Only band with Aryan in their name I've heard that's really noteable is Aryan Terrorism, and despite the cliches, their album is really good. I've heard some Aryan Blood as well and liked it, but haven't really made much of a point to go looking for it.

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Teh Lezboah
Goat

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 7:46 pm

KPN, I can upload which ones I have. Teutonic Satan used to have them a month or so ago I think. Plenty of other killer tapes available though http://www.teutonicsatan.cjb.net/
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KPN
Little Man
KPN

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 10:36 pm

Thanks for the link... the problem with the USA is that the German customs authorities (???) opens up your packages when they come from any country outside the EU and when they find tapes with swastikas on them they'll come for a nice little visit and I'll probably loose 50% of my collection... fucking fascists... Very Happy

Hm... AT has Nokturnal Mortum members... maybe they're worth a try...
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Warluster
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Warluster

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 07, 2010 2:00 am

Fascists? Heh.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong w/ being intolerant of others who are intolerant. I support being intolerant of intolerance.

Call it a double standard if you want.


I just don't look at intolerant genocidal racist sexist homophobic raping dumbasses as people.
They're less than shit in my mind. Scum.
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KPN
Little Man
KPN

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 07, 2010 9:20 am

That was a joke... 'cause... you know... NSBM and complaining about fascism... irony... yhea...

Still, German authorities ssuck.
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Vacantgreen
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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 07, 2010 1:12 pm

Warluster wrote:
Personally, I don't see anything wrong w/ being intolerant of others who are intolerant. I support being intolerant of intolerance.

Call it a double standard if you want.


I just don't look at intolerant genocidal racist sexist homophobic raping dumbasses as people.
They're less than shit in my mind. Scum.
Well, this is a nice, gentle incline-- whoa! holy shit, I almost slipped, there, I'll have to be careFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Teh Lezboah
Goat

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 07, 2010 3:53 pm

KPN wrote:
Thanks for the link... the problem with the USA is that the German customs authorities (???) opens up your packages when they come from any country outside the EU and when they find tapes with swastikas on them they'll come for a nice little visit and I'll probably loose 50% of my collection... fucking fascists... Very Happy

Hm... AT has Nokturnal Mortum members... maybe they're worth a try...
Yea I have heard the horror stories. I know SSP has plans to reissue the first 3 White Wolves Kommando tapes on vinyl but there's a slim chance you'd be able to import that haha. I've disguised stuff for a friend before and he got it though.
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Warluster
Doomsower
Warluster

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 09, 2010 2:28 am

You may call it a slippery slope, Vacant, but I won't be nice to something that has no respect for life. The Nazi agenda was the ultimate antithesis to life and everything good.
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Vacantgreen
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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptySat Oct 09, 2010 12:23 pm

I'm pretty sure some dudes said that about about a lot of people and those are the dudes you are arguing against, right now.
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KPN
Little Man
KPN

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 10, 2010 2:40 am

Warluster wrote:
The Nazi agenda was the ultimate antithesis to life and everything good.

If that's a problem, why then listen to Black Metal in the first place?
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Warluster
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Warluster

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 3:44 am

What do you mean? You'll have to be more specific. Also realize that when I say "everything good" that it is a subjective term. But, yes, I'm a big proponent for things like human rights and peace as they make things easier and make more sense than the alternative and I believe people should all have the right to enjoy their lives, even if many people are stupid as hell.

I've listened to black metal, among other things, for many years now. I like the music. I like a good deal of the ideology, most of which NSBM totally goes against. A lot of black metal fans suffer from taking the black metal shit too seriously and in the wrong way.

I'm going to speak in generalities here. Black metal is a music genre that focuses more on the emotional side of the spectrum as opposed to other things, like technicality. It's a music that is true art to me in many ways. It is intensely personal. It isn't done for others, or to sell albums. It is usually done for the artist themselves, and if it happens to stike a chord w/ others (no pun intended) then that's nice, but it isn't the expectation. Black metal expresses distaste for humanity in general, societies, rules and systems, while promoting individualism and a love for older traditions. These are things that speak to me.

NSBM/Nazi/fascist ideology goes against most of that. Fascism is all about a set system w/ rules. There is no individuality, only conformism. Someone tells you what to do and you do it or die. Fuck that. Black metal is supposed to be chaotic and fascism is the complete opposite of that. Not to mention it's just illogical on a number of levels. Shit is worse than religion.

Some people are going to say that black metal is all about hatred, Satan, war, shit like that. And to a certain extent that's true. But black metal was never intended to be racist or hate aimed at groups of people, unless you count people in general and people that promote the caged system that runs the world now and anything similar to it.

For example, when all the early black metal bands talked about Satan, were they saying they were literallty Satan worshippers? No, that's fucking retarded. Satanism is just as stupid as Christianity. No, what it was was an attack on the system and the Christian society most of us live in. The greatest enemy of Christianity (which has totally fucked everything up and partly led to our crappy inept society) has always been Satan. So they took Satan up as their rallying call, so to speak.

Sometimes, when I'm at my college, I get accosted by asshole Christian club idiots. They ask me if I have Jesus in my life or whatever. I usually ignore them, but I am often tempted to just say I worship Satan. Do I? No. But it's a big, "fuck you" to them and that's how I feel.

Same concept in black metal. Look at my Necromantia quote in my signature. If I worshipped Satan it would only be because of what it represents to Christianity: Everything that they're against as I am against them. Organized religion is evil.



PS I don't know if that exactly answers your question, but feel free to ask more about it. I just tried to make some points. I don't like the ideology, but I still enjoy some NSBM music, as it is not audibly different than some of the music I listen to i.e. it is still black metal.
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Vacantgreen
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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 9:36 am

Warluster wrote:
Christianity (which has totally fucked everything up and partly led to our crappy inept society)
Yeah, that really happened the other way around. I mean, after a point, it's kind of a vicious cycle, but society definitely fucked it over before it fucked society over.

Warluster wrote:
Sometimes, when I'm at my college, I get accosted by asshole Jewish club idiots. They ask me if I have God in my life or whatever. I usually ignore them, but I am often tempted to just say I worship Hitler. Do I? No. But it's a big, "fuck you" to them and that's how I feel.
. . . Organized religion is evil.
Look I made your quote disprove your point by changing three words! If advocating something you don't believe as a "fuck you" to an organized religion is okay for worshiping Satan, who is defined by being quite literally the antithesis of everything remotely good and alive, how is advocating politics that you don't believe any different?

In short, I think that, in a lot of cases, assuming the bands are any more legitimately nazis than others are Satanists is pretty silly. Nazism is a huge fuck you to not only several organized religions, including arguably Christianity, but also pretty much to any sort of societal standard of decency. Nazi imagery is one of the few things that will be even more shocking and offensive to an ever wider range of people than Satanism; nazi iconography was hugely present in the early punk movement, despite its primarily communist or anarchist (or both) sympathies, precisely because of its power to shock and offend.
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KPN
Little Man
KPN

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 9:59 am

Quote :
A lot of black metal fans suffer from taking the black metal shit too seriously and in the wrong way.

I agree with the first part but I don't think that one can say that there is a 'right' or 'wrong' definition of Black Metal (as an 'ideology'). People will always sing about themes that are important to them...

Quote :
Black metal expresses distaste for humanity in general, societies, rules and systems, while promoting individualism and a love for older traditions.

Well, that's how you feel about it...

Imo, BM dosn't need to have this childish 'anti'-attitude to be good. What speaks against an band like, for example, Vogelsang who also promote positive aspects? It's not necessary to run along with the BM herd and write crappy songs about juvenile distastes of systems most of the artists often don't even understand.
And individualism? Like in dressing in the same cheap bandshirts, going to the same cheap concerts and buying the same cheap tapes while pissing at everybody who dares to enjoy something that is branded as 'mainstream' or 'untrue' (or at people who use the words true/untrue)? Black Metal has little to do with individualism, at least that is what I have experienced...

Quote :
NSBM/Nazi/fascist ideology goes against most of that. Fascism is all about a set system w/ rules. There is no individuality, only conformism.

To be a conformist in these days you have to run along with the antifascistic liberal/leftist pack, not the authoritarian. Also, who says that people who believe in an authoritarian social system haven't come to their conclusions on their own? It's simply a theory how human society could work, same as the rest...

Most Nazis I have met believe in the necessity of authority because they don't believe that people are intelligent enough not to fuck things up when left to do what they want. Therefore they say that humans need an authority to tell them to either get their asses moving or to get a ticked to Dachau and when I take a look at some of that human scum in my country, I'll have to say that they have a point.

Most Black Metal warriors have never seen one of those wars they are singing about as well as most of those wannabe intellectuals have never seen a book from the inside. A lot of that ranting going on in the Black Metal scene is nothing but hot air, as we say in Germany... sure, the same can be said for the majority of the NS scene, but then I'll have to ask: Where's the big fucking difference?

Quote :
But black metal was never intended to be racist or hate aimed at groups of people, unless you count people in general and people that promote the caged system that runs the world now and anything similar to it.

Maybe, but also Black Metal was never about giving a flying fuck about some jews hurt feelings because of your funny Auschwitz songs...

Quote :
For example, when all the early black metal bands talked about Satan, were they saying they were literallty Satan worshippers?

You're aware that there where and are a lot of bands and individuals in the BM scene who think that Satanism (and related ideologies and beliefes) are serious fucking business? And what's with all those who believe in pagan religions?



I don't think that one should limit BM to one ideology... and in the end everyone has to decide what he wants to support and what not...
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Vacantgreen
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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 10:52 am

Authoritarianism would be a great solution to the problem of most people being cruel and stupid if it weren't for the fact that the central authority will be made up entirely, rather than mostly, of the cruelest and most idiotically hubristic. Look how horrifically authoritarian governments fuck up their countries, every damn time. Government doesn't work because good people pretty much categorically don't want to be involved in governing other people.

An utterly incompetent dictator would be pretty sweet, though.
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KPN
Little Man
KPN

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 12:12 pm

And what's the alternative? The reign of self righteous moralists who manipulate the masses to legitimize their reign for the next period of office while they do pretty much the opposite of what they actually promised their moronic servants?

At least that crippled thing they try to sell as 'democracy' can't be the solution...
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Vacantgreen
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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 1:39 pm

I mean, I said Government was a total, universal failure. It's not like I left too many options.

Anarchy: Putting the "natural" back in "natural selection."
or
Anarchy: Baby birds learn to fly by falling out of the nest.
or
Anarchy: Laws don't stop murder, why bother?
or
Anarchy: Well, if we all kill each other, better for everything else on the planet; it's a win-win.
or
Anarchy: It's already how things work, fuck it, let's just stop pretending.

You can do whatever you want, regardless of what the laws say. All a law is somebody telling you they'll hurt you if you do something they don't like. The State is just a bully who takes your lunch money and tries to make you play by his rules. Unfortunately for him, like most bullies, he must be incredibly stupid to be so mindlessly cruel, meaning evading his rules is really easy.
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KPN
Little Man
KPN

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 2:08 pm

Anarchy is bullshit. The strong would simply dominate the weak and establish a system where they are the rulers, and bang: You got the same shit like befor.
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Knightfall
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Knightfall

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 2:13 pm

Anarchy is like Communism. Good idea, in theory, but done by all the wrong people, or in Anarchy's case, there aren't enough of the right people for it to work out.

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Vacantgreen
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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 2:48 pm

KPN wrote:
Anarchy is bullshit. The strong would simply dominate the weak and establish a system where they are the rulers, and bang: You got the same shit like befor.

I think I covered that.

Vacantgreen wrote:
Anarchy: It's already how things work, fuck it, let's just stop pretending.

You can do whatever you want, regardless of what the laws say. All a law is somebody telling you they'll hurt you if you do something they don't like. The State is just a bully who takes your lunch money and tries to make you play by his rules. Unfortunately for him, like most bullies, he must be incredibly stupid to be so mindlessly cruel, meaning evading his rules is really easy.

Does nobody read a goddamned thing I say? The world is already in anarchy. There are no rulers, absent evidence of the divine, and there are no laws, absent more objective scientific analysis than is currently possible. Those among us who pretend to them dance around in a petulant charade, no different or more meaningful than a child crowning himself king of the world, other than the difference in the amount of guns they can point in your direction. The "strong" dominating the "weak," is all there is, to take a pessimistic and arguably realistic view. The "weak" have their private revenge, namely in outnumbering the strong greatly enough that the strong are virtually wholly incapable of achieving what they want. The Strong want murder to be illegal, yet murder is almost omnipresent and, further, goes largely and increasingly without retribution of any sort. There are more of the weak, and they are collectively smarter than the strong can hope to be. The only way to live is to take off the blinders taught to you in school, the chains you tied to your ankles. There is nothing in your way. Do whatever you please, and if you are clever enough, or if you are fast enough, maybe even if you and yours can become strong enough, they will never stop you, because they're bigger, but they're dumber, and they're slower, and maybe they won't even see you growing until it's too late. Think of, in the entirety of your life, every time you've broken a law and not gotten caught. Every time you've jay-walked, every time you've downloaded a song, as you've said, every second some of the albums you own are in your house. You are a criminal. I am a criminal. I probably broke the law a thousand times just crossing the street when I was a little kid, and didn't even know it.

As I said, Government is a complete and utter failure. That is, however, not a criticism, but a description of its sole redeeming quality. Rather than doing a good idea properly, humanity can be better trusted to execute a terrible idea poorly enough that it works well. I support increasingly incompetent governance in any form it takes.
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Warluster
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Warluster

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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 14, 2010 2:58 am

I was speaking in vague generalities before, KPN. Obviously not everyone in a particular group/scene thinks or acts the same.

I agree w/ Knightfall. Communism and anarchy sound great in theory. I wholehaertedly support libertarianism and democratic soclialism, which are actually quite similar to anarchy and communism, respectively.


That being said, I do get your points Vacant. I know I'm a criminal and most people probably are. It's all subjective, too, like you said. Everyone is going to be a criminal to someone else somewhere anyways. I see past the laws that government has set up. I don't follow them just because they're there. I follow certain laws because I already have those beliefs (like not wanting to murder people). Other laws I discard as they are of no use to me and I don't see their logic.

But you're suggesting to do nothing to try and better our lives and/or the system around us. Or, at least, that's what it sounds like. In a world like that, where it's everyone out for themselves and where people "do whatever they please" as you put it, there wouldn't be any progress then. Obviously, not all progress is good, but some is. Inevitably it would be a world that ended up in violence and would eventually, as KPN said, end up the way it is now, or worse. Might would make right and dictators would arise. Personally, I don't support such a world of violence.

I'm a dreamer, I know, and I don't have high expectations. I believe that the human race is inherently greedy/selfish and "evil." I really can't see that changing, though i support people trying. I don't believe in just giving up and feeding that bestial nature that leads to war, even if it does never stop.
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Vacantgreen
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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 14, 2010 1:55 pm

People are inherently good, society makes them bad. It's too ingrained to smash in any sort of violent, cathartic way. You just have to disintegrate it slowly by eroding what it stands for. Just start little fires and watch them burn. Every time you say "no," you're making the world a better place. Every time you're kind when you could be cruel, you're making the world a better place. Power is the nature and essence of evil, and it is the essential and necessary centre of both the state and circulatory capitalism, which require one another to enforce their malicious will. I'm not saying people are out for themselves, I'm saying people should do what they think is right, not what somebody tells them is right, because whenever someone orders anyone to do anything, the order is not for the other's good, ever.

Where Nietzsche fails totally is in his idea of master-slave morality, and accordingly that slave morality praises weakness by praising meekness and kindness. Passivity is the only strength. To try and change the world dynamically, and reshape it in one's own image, no-matter how well intended, is the nature of evil. Nothing can be accomplished by force, physically or otherwise. Do kindness to others and ignore the codes of ritualized mass violence inherent in every fibre of the capitalist society as much as you can. Violence isn't people pointing guns at people, violence is silence and sorrow and loss and alienation. Violence is exploited labour. Lay down the hammers that make their swords, take up your pens and your hoes and your spades, and trace your own graves. That is the only resistance. To live on your own terms and wait to be murdered for it until there are too many to be murdered.
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Warluster
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PostSubject: Re: The NSBM Thread   The NSBM Thread - Page 2 EmptyThu Oct 14, 2010 5:36 pm

Well, that was well put and an interesting read. I agree with you on many of your points, but disagree on others.

I believe that people are inherently "bad." Environment, incl. society can make them worse or better. In a state of nautre people are just going to be violent and kill each other over food or fear.

I will say that I think what you're describing is a dream, just as I was doing. I don't believe it can ever happen. It's a nice dream, though.
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